My comment about Car Physics - 08-07-2014, 04:21

 

This writting is consists of two parts: 
1. A question from a member
2. An answer from a member

 

 

 Originally Posted by bmanic 

rainmaker, one thing that confuses me is your insistence of the brilliance of the old MS Sidewinder wheel. Well, just for kicks I might install my old wheel just to check it out.. but I'm extremely sceptical. It has virtually ALL of the worst traits of a FFB wheel one could possibly imagine. It's slow, it's working at a low refresh rate, it's very small (this can actually be a good thing for some people) it's ancient in terms of FFB strength and just is not anywhere near the performance of a low to mid range FFB wheel of today. Compared to the higher end wheels it's ludicrous to assume that it's even remotely "good".

.. and I have a TON of hours on that wheel so I'm pretty certain it's like "riding a bike" when it comes to recalling how it felt.. but we'll see how it is if and when I get it up and running on my system (windows 8 may be a large hurdle but my old Sidewinder FFB Joystick works just fine so why wouldn't the wheel?). I used to run tons of GP Legends, GTR 1, GTR 2, and it was even my main wheel when I first got rFactor but I then got the Logitech MOMO black and it was a MASSIVE step forward. Today a simple wheel like the G25/G27 or even the DFGT is a massive step up from the MOMO black.

So yeah.. I'm a bit confused by that bit.

Hello. I just had the time to check what you precious testers and admins wrote about. 

I am going to answer to your question "the insistence on MS FF" .

I tried many wheels at shopping malls or friends. I will sound harsh but what I am going to say is going to be very interesting. Why do you think MS stopped making more MS FF wheels? Why do you think there was no new product from MS? 
Here is my experience and my thoughts on this; because they really did their best to make a almost perfect wheel and they didn't need a new one. The lucky ones bought one unused; and now people are trying to get a hold of one. Its the
reason.

Here is another issue you mentioned "low framerate wheel" or "low frequency"... Our brain works at a very low frequency yet no computers can reach the power of it "yet" and probably "will never" hopefully (the matrix issue). 
Working at a low frequency does not mean that hardware is running SLOW. It means; it is actually running VERY fast. There were no more drivers because the driver works with every operating system MS released. Interesting huh?

The driver is there but the software was not there which you guys PERFECTLY achieved to emulate the forces in the best way you could because right now; check BESOS GP. I am using a manual clutch as well for F1 and still using
an MS FF wheel. The biggest difference is in the servos I believe because they are DAMN strong than any other wheel I tested. I can really lose weight while playing PCARS and any other games. But with others; it is just too much or just
a little bit lower than what it should supposed to be I believe.

The design of the wheel is just perfect in my opinion. It is probably very close to old F1 cars (Lotus 98T) and also the shape is just perfect to catch the tail. Right now I can drift a 98T without any "extra" effort so it is very very close to
the real feeling. It is really close and it does not need to be closer than this. The FF in this game has become a very very detailed and yet simple effect like the real feeling. 

Here is my thoughts on logitech MOMO and G25. Momo really hurt my hands; it is designed faulty. It can even go to a point where your hands are bleeding etc and it is overly strong. When it comes to G25, I played some other games with it.
Its very shiny etc etc. but it lacks the strenght of a normal steering wheel. A normal steering wheel should be able to CUT your power when it comes to the point of wheel contact. Sidewinder CUTS and STEPS IN just at the right times.
I can seriously just let go the wheel (15 20 cm away from the wheel almost) and then catch it at the right time; feel the "RIGHT" resistance and then save (saving is my fun) the car from the skid. 

I tried Formula A. It is a kids toy really. Full of stupid safety stuff with stupid clutch and a stupid whinning engine. Cmon guys; who does not want to see 98T's on the tracks AGAIN? If you do not; well; here is one and his name is Rainmaker.

Senna died because he lost concentration. Everybody says that renault killed him on purpose but; cmon guys who would like to lose the best driver while he was going top notch?

He lost concentration. A single microsecond of lost concentration equals CRASH in those cars. It was VERY VERY VERY dangerous. Still, we will never know what the true story is but; we all know that they were really dancing at the edge of a blade.

F1 is a very very interesting sport. It is not a RACE in the first place; it is a SHOW. You sometimes slow down while you are going 1st just to go back and compete with the guys you are faster than. This is how F1 makes money, and all the
other races EXCEPT LE'MANS. 

F1 , is a show+race+technology race. It is a really really really interesting sport guys. The tunnel feeling, the feeling of "unknown" forces while racing is common. Unknown forces means; the universe has many secrets and it plays its game
in every single electron, not even atom. 

To be a great racing driver; first the one should become a MAN. A man means who knows when to BACK UP. If you push the "limit"s , well; you will cross the limit and crash. When the sport gets PERSONAL which is absolutely WRONG; 
you will start to see crashes.


The most important thing is the start of an F1 race. Because; lets say you are pretty fast but you have to start from 18th position. It is a DISASTER for that guy to get out of that mess. Because at a start; if you check your mirrors intentionally;
you will crash. If you check what any other car is doing, you will crash. If you check your brain "hmmm; how we are going to make it thru the first straight?" you will crash. If you listen to the crowd or any other sound than the engine; again
you will probably crash. These guys are getting paid A LOT OF MONEY because they are really risking their lives like an astronaut. 

I know I went to very interesting topics but I had to. Now; back to the MS wheel...


I really do not know who designed it yet who tested it and how they tested it. But it feels 99% CLOSE to a real car, RW or FW does not matter. It is just very very nice. I whined 2 years ago to the developers just to find a way to make this
wheel work perfect with the game which they did and I am so grateful to them. Its not that I can not buy a new wheel; of course I can buy a new wheel, but I know that the wheel I am getting is no better than MS ; actually a downscaled
version of the MS wheel. MS wheel was SO EXPENSIVE. Because; they used the BEST parts and they hired the best guys to do it, but no body gave the importance to the wheel and then probably MR.Gates said "Okay; this is going nowhere
because those guys really can't see what we achieved. Why should be bothered? Lets design a new windows and get we will over it."

BTW, I bought the xbox 360 wheel and then gave it back 2 days later. It was a disaster really. It was the weakest and dullest wheel I have ever touched and never touched again. 

I think MS will release a new wheel; a better one than the old FF, and it will be a king again do not worry about that. Just be patient and lets see what will happen. If they won't release a new one; then I advise you to get one from Ebay. 

NOTE: I was really about to destroy my PC when I was testing the old builds 2 years ago. There was no connection to the wheels. Then, it felt almost perfect and I decided to renew my cpu + mobo + rams. I am playing this game 
not to race on tracks or on the road because I have a family to protect and support...


I really approached the topic from a different angle but I think you guys got the point. I am not telling you to change religions, I am only telling that I love this wheel because I have the experience to tell which is good or which is bad. Fanatec? blah...
Do you remember the old Sega Rally machines that were hitting the steering wheel and you could hear the "klak!" sounds? Well, that was pretty bad as well.

This MS wheel even gives me the feeling when a single tire is airbourne and the rest is on the asphalt. I know it is pretty interesting; but you should become a HARDCORE RACER on a REAL TRACK to understand this. I am not telling that you are not a one,
but If you can't feel it; then there is some stuff missing from your CV.

I hope nobody got me wrong on this. I love this game and I will keep loving it because this is not a game; this is a real simulator I have ever driven.



Best
rainmaker